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In article Kenneth J Flagg, I had the chance to play briefly both the EX5 and the EX7. Sounds quite good but nothing impressive. It certainly won't be a threat to the K2500. The Yamaha's are more like a neat and cost-effective re-packaging of their line of synths. They don't add anything new. As for the sampling engine, the built in editor is nowhere as elaborate as the Kurzweil's, but is still more advanced than the Trinity. (but 128-note polyphony certainly beats the 48-note of the K2500.) Fenzar [email protected] 08.04.98 00:00.
Kenneth J Flagg wrote: Yamaha's new flagship EX5 seems like it would be a good direct competitor with the K2500, what with its multiple synthesis techniquespowerful sampling engine and sequencer and 128-note polyphony (I still don't understand why there is not an 88-key fully-weighted, though) - Which is why you could probably use a K2500X to control the EX5.:) I'm still learning my way through my Kurz, but all those sliders, wheels and ribbons are da bomb. You are right about the EX5 looking very cool. It shouldn't be long before reviews appear in magazines and on websites.
Hubba hubba hubba. has anyone had a chance to really compare specs between the two? I realize the EX5 hasn't come out yet, but I'm sure somebody's heard a prototype model. I dread thinking about it, but I fear that polyphony is becoming a major issue for me and the Yamaha looks better very minute. [email protected] 12.04.98 00:00. In article, Fenzar wrote: In article Kenneth J Flaggwrites: Yamaha's new flagship EX5 seems like it would be a good direct competitor with the K2500, what with its multiple synthesis techniquespowerful sampling engine and sequencer and 128-note polyphony (I still don't understand why there is not an 88-key fully-weighted, though) - has anyone had a chance to really compare specs between the two? I realize the EX5 hasn't come out yet, but I'm sure somebody's heard a prototype model.
I had the chance to play briefly both the EX5 and the EX7. Sounds quite good but nothing impressive. It certainly won't be a threat to the K2500. The Yamaha's are more like a neat and cost-effective re-packaging of their line of synths. They don't add anything new. As for the sampling engine, the built in editor is nowhere as elaborate as the Kurzweil'sbut is still more advanced than the Trinity. (but 128-note polyphony certainly beats the 48-note of the K2500.) Fenzar In the latest (newstand) issue of Keyboard Magazine, they review workstations.
EX7 is one that is compared. They seem to like it quite a bit! Saying things like it has the best interface ever seen on a keyboard. The sounds are very, very good. At the time of the article, he was testing a prototype which was missing a bank or so of sounds. But everything he could access, he really enjoyed. Like with anything that costs 17 - 2,500+ I would suggest researching in depth.
I am in the market for a nice/powerful workstation. Anyone got any suggestions? The price should be 1,800.00 - 2,200.00 Thanks, Marv - Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion - Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading [email protected] 12.04.98 00:00. Wrote: In the latest (newstand) issue of Keyboard Magazine, they review workstations. EX7 is one that is compared. snip at the time of the article, the reviewer was testing a prototype which was missing a bank or so of sounds. It sounds a lot like the workstation comparison test, published in the April issue of Electronic Musician.
You sure you're not confusing the two?:) The way I read the article, it seemed that the Kurzweil K2000VP was getting a little long in the tooth. Indeed, in that price range I would tend to avoid it now as the EX-7 and XP-80 look better and better. But it's all kind of moot, since I have to finish paying off my K2500X.:) Kenneth J Flagg 12.04.98 00:00. On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:48:58 -0400, Kenneth J Flagg wrote: It does, however, have a more detailed advertisement where you can see that the EX5 comes standard with 4 outputs and two independent MIDI ports. Sounds like good news to me!
Does anyone know if Yamaha has the EX5 up on their webpage yet? Check out for more detailed information about the synth. Ruud - The Terratec EWS64 XL Mailing List: Ruud van de Kruisweg - The Flat Earth Company - My email-address has been SPAM-proofed. Remove NOSPAM from my address. Rev Spicy 14.04.98 00:00.
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.synth: 14-Apr-98 Re: Yamaha EX5 vs. By : Check out for more detailed information about the synth.
Or better still, get info on hard copy. Future Music magazine not only review it but also have sounds from it on their cover CD. Jon FM's website didn't have the May issue up yet. I ran into a post on the SynthZone discussion list where somebody said that the EX5 was limited to one timbre of VL and two of AN at a time, and the VL was only monophonic! The writer also expressed concerns that this would be a 'jack of all trades, master of none' type of synth - I would hope not. At the very least, it would be a good idea for Yamaha to offer a DSP upgrade to allow for more hard-core synthesis to occur.
I wonder how good it will really be. Has anyone used the Yamaha VL-1? Is it monophonic? I know the AN1X can do a max of 2 timbres, so it's not surprising that the EX is the same. I just wonder how quickly the total DSP power will be eaten up by all the fancy features - a factor that may make it or break it as a workstation.K Kirk Dupont 14.04.98 00:00. Kenneth J Flagg wrote: I ran into a post on the SynthZone discussion list where somebody said that the EX5 was limited to one timbre of VL and two of AN at a time, and the VL was only monophonic! The writer also expressed concerns that this would be a 'jack of all trades, master of none' type of synth - I would hope not.
At the very least, it would be a good idea for Yamaha to offer a DSP upgrade to allow for more hard-core synthesis to occur. I wonder how good it will really be. Has anyone used the Yamaha VL-1? Is it monophonic? I know the AN1X can do a max of 2 timbres, so it's not surprising that the EX is the same.
I just wonder how quickly the total DSP power will be eaten up by all the fancy features - a factor that may make it or break it as a workstation. -K Actually, the story I have heard is even more dismal - that the AN1X section is limited to only 2 voices of polyphony (vs. Two timbres)! If this is true, it will render this feature useless for my purposes.
Let's just hope that I've been misinformed!!! Kirk GEOF ABRUZZI 14.04.98 00:00. Kenneth J Flagg wrote:: Has anyone used the Yamaha VL-1? Is it monophonic? I know the AN1X: can do a max of 2 timbres, so it's not surprising that the EX is the: same. I just wonder how quickly the total DSP power will be eaten up by: all the fancy features - a factor that may make it or break it as a: workstation.
The VL-1 had 2 note polyphony, though many sounds will layer those two reducing you back to one. I'll bet the VL in the EX is more like the VL70m which is a CR version with simpler patch architechure and only one note polyphony (although still a pretty nice little beast.) I'm wondering how much the innards are just a couple of synth boards shoehorned into one case, unlike the Kurzweil which is more of a general-purpose computer, and hence easily upgradeable.
Geof - Geof Abruzzi Language is a virus from outer space. Gxa114 @ And hearing your name is better BeOS Developer #3089 than seeing your face.Laurie Anderson. Wombstatevector 14.04.98 00:00. Actually, the story I have heard is even more dismal - that the AN1X section is limited to only 2 voices of polyphony (vs. Two timbres)! If this is true, it will render this feature useless for my purposes.
Let's just hope that I've been misinformed!!! In article, Kenneth J Flagg wrote: I ran into a post on the SynthZone discussion list where somebody said that the EX5 was limited to one timbre of VL and two of AN at a time, and the VL was only monophonic! According to a review by a Yamaha developer in the German magazine Keyboards, this is true. And the AN section has (only) two voices. And use of VL voice (which is comparable to the VL70m instead of the VL1) disables use of the AN voices and vice versa.
And use of the FDSP section disables the VL section as well. And the use of one (16-voice) FDSP algorithm disables one AN voice, and use of two FDSPs disables both.
In short, everything is supposedly done using DSPs, and there is not much spare room in them. However, it still is a nice machine with a lot of possibilities, even though you cannot use all of them at the same time.
Geof Abruzzi wrote: I'm wondering how much the innards are just a couple of synth boards shoehorned into one case, unlike the Kurzweil which is more of a general-purpose computer, and hence easily upgradeable. The architecture is not a couple of synth boards, and the upgradability of the Kurzweil should not be exagerated.
It contains a lowly 68000 type processor which has just enough power to do interface and disk stuff, so the sound generation/filtering/etc. Must come from specialized or dedicated processors. Since these can only produce 48 sample voices (as opposed to the EX-5's 128), don't expect a virtual anolog or physical modelling algorithm to become available (at least not without giving up a lot of polyphony).
Theo Gregg Humphrey 15.04.98 00:00. Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.makers.synth: 15-Apr-98 Re: Yamaha EX5 vs. By Theo [email protected] According to a review by a Yamaha developer in the German magazine Keyboards, this is true. And the AN section has (only) two voices. And use of VL voice (which is comparable to the VL70m instead of the VL1) disables use of the AN voices and vice versa. And use of the FDSP section disables the VL section as well. And the use of one (16-voice) FDSP algorithm disables one AN voice, and use of two FDSPs disables both.
In short, everything is supposedly done using DSPs, and there is not much spare room in them. However, it still is a nice machine with a lot of possibilities, even though you cannot use all of them at the same time. That's really disappointing. If the EX5 were just a tone module with different generative capablities, that would be one thing. But they tout it as a full-fledged workstation, a place to produce stuff from start to finish.
And they really push the FDSP, VL and AN stuff. I guess it's a good replacement for a rompler/sampler combo, but is it really as revolutionary as they say? I'm not so sure anymore. And what's up with only 30,000 notes of sequencer memory, and one song? There must be a Yamaha rep reading this.K Ruud van de Kruisweg 15.04.98 00:00.
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:30:44 -0700, 'wombstatevector' wrote: one thing i would like to know: each voice/channel has two 'insert effects'- i have never used a synth/sampler with inserts- does this mean that each channel can use different FX simultaneously in a m-t set-up? According to the EX5 review in Future Music a max of four voices retain their insertion effects in multi-timbral performance. I know this is better than for instance a Roland JV-2080 where only one voice keeps the effects belonging to that voice, but I wonder if other workstation in that price range fare any better.
Ruud - The Terratec EWS64 XL Mailing List: Ruud van de Kruisweg - The Flat Earth Company - My email-address has been SPAM-proofed. Remove NOSPAM from my address. Ruud van de Kruisweg 15.04.98 00:00. On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:47:28 +0200, (Theo Vosse) wrote: According to a review by a Yamaha developer in the German magazine Keyboards, this is true. And the AN section has (only) two voices. And use of VL voice (which is comparable to the VL70m instead of the VL1) disables use of the AN voices and vice versa.
And use of the FDSP section disables the VL section as well. And the use of one (16-voice) FDSP algorithm disables one AN voice, and use of two FDSPs disables both. In short, everything is supposedly done using DSPs, and there is not much spare room in them.
It would be very nice if there was a possibility of upgrading the synth by putting a more powerful DSP in it so you could get more AN/VL-voices and insertion effects. Ruud - The Terratec EWS64 XL Mailing List: Ruud van de Kruisweg - The Flat Earth Company - My email-address has been SPAM-proofed.
Remove NOSPAM from my address. Fenzar 15.04.98 00:00. Theo Vosse wrote in message. In article, Kenneth J Flagg wrote: I ran into a post on the SynthZone discussion list where somebody said that the EX5 was limited to one timbre of VL and two of AN at a time, and the VL was only monophonic! According to a review by a Yamaha developer in the German magazine Keyboards, this is true. And the AN section has (only) two voices.
And use of VL voice (which is comparable to the VL70m instead of the VL1) disables use of the AN voices and vice versa. And use of the FDSP section disables the VL section as well. And the use of one (16-voice) FDSP algorithm disables one AN voice, and use of two FDSPs disables both. In short, everything is supposedly done using DSPs, and there is not much spare room in them. Heh, I got my Korg Z1 (to keep company to my K2000) last christmas and was getting worried that Yamaha has somehow managed to make a giant leap in DSP price/performance but it seems that they haven't.
It is probably basically so that in two instruments of the same price and age (whatever the manufacturer) there is roughly equal amount of DSP power. Sure, the new EX synths seem to have a lot of polyphony, but the more powerful synthesis that they hype about starts to seem like a crippled add-on in a typical sample-playing 'synth'. Geof Abruzzi wrote: I'm wondering how much the innards are just a couple of synth boards shoehorned into one case, unlike the Kurzweil which is more of a general-purpose computer, and hence easily upgradeable. The architecture is not a couple of synth boards, and the upgradability of the Kurzweil should not be exagerated. It contains a lowly 68000 type processor which has just enough power to do interface and disk stuff, so the sound generation/filtering/etc. Must come from specialized or dedicated processors.
Yep, and unfortunately one can't upgrade the synthesis engine. I would really like to see a K3000 with a more powerful and software upgradeable engine. Since these can only produce 48 sample voices (as opposed to the EX-5's 128), don't expect a virtual anolog or physical modelling algorithm to become available (at least not without giving up a lot of polyphony). There won't be modelling or new algorithms in the current Kurzweils, but I am pretty sure that the 48 voices in the K2500 (and 24 in K2000) are totally in the different class than the 'standard' voices in the EXs.
The Kurzweil engine allows different algorithms for each of the multiparts and the algorithms itself are very flexible (as is the controller system). No physical modelling, though. I would really like to see the through spex of the EXs but I suspect that the 128 voices don't have much else than a sample, minimal amount of envelopes and LFOs (fixed destinations?) and possibly simple (not very convincing) filtering.
For example, it seems that one has to use the FDSP to get PWM (you have to use some algorithm blocks in the K2000, but this doesn't tie up any 'general' resources). I understood (from above) that using 2 FDSPs disables the AN synthesis and VL synthesis totally. If there are total 2 FDSPs for the whole instrument does it mean that only 2 different timbres can utilize the FDSP simultaneously? This would also be a major drawback for people who expect to use the EX as a synthesizer. I just hope that people don't get mislead by the specs. There are bound to be people who think that the EX is like a physical modelling synth with a 128 voices.
What I would llove would be the Korg Z1 and Kurzweil engines seamlessly combined:-) Everything a single voice can be on both of these machines simultaneously and independently for all voices. And a possibility to do your own algorithms with an Iris Mars -like system (check out and be very frightened. Greetings, Jouni Theo Vosse 17.04.98 00:00. In article, 'Jouni Alkio' wrote: It is probably basically so that in two instruments of the same price and age (whatever the manufacturer) there is roughly equal amount of DSP power. Seems acceptable.
Sure, the new EX synths seem to have a lot of polyphony, but the more powerful synthesis that they hype about starts to seem like a crippled add-on in a typical sample-playing 'synth'. I think you should see the VL and AN voices as extras. The FDSP really is an integrated part of the sound. The demo disk that accompanied Keyboards (the German magazine, not the US one), had convincing demonstrations of how use of different parameters and algorithms can change a simple sounding ROM sound. And of course, it has up to 4 effects, 2 of which are per voice.
Yep, and unfortunately one can't upgrade the synthesis engine. I would really like to see a K3000 with a more powerful and software upgradeable engine. I think it will take some time before anyone comes with such a thing (in a more or less affordable price range). Look at the Nord Modular: from the specs it seems it has everything a lot of people would ever need, but it is not cheap.
Certainly not if you want 48 voices or more. Anyway, you can compute what it would cost (in hardware alone): think one fast Pentium or PowerPC (or ARM or whatever) processors, plus the bus architecture and the memory etc per voice. That would set you back at least $200 per voice (and that would be really cheap, and you still wouldn't be able to do everything you could dream up).
I would really like to see the through spex of the EXs but I suspect that the 128 voices don't have much else than a sample, minimal amount of envelopes and LFOs (fixed destinations?) and possibly simple (not very convincing) filtering. There is more than a minimal amount of filtering, LFO and envelope in one voice. I will look up the details in the magazine.
If there are total 2 FDSPs for the whole instrument does it mean that only 2 different timbres can utilize the FDSP simultaneously? No, as far as I remember, one FDSP block can process 8 or 16 voices.
Theo Richard Rogers 17.04.98 00:00. Theo Vosse wrote in message. In article, Kenneth J Flagg wrote: I ran into a post on the SynthZone discussion list where somebody said that the EX5 was limited to one timbre of VL and two of AN at a time, and the VL was only monophonic! According to a review by a Yamaha developer in the German magazine Keyboards, this is true.
And the AN section has (only) two voices. And use of VL voice (which is comparable to the VL70m instead of the VL1) disables use of the AN voices and vice versa.
And use of the FDSP section disables the VL section as well. And the use of one (16-voice) FDSP algorithm disables one AN voice, and use of two FDSPs disables both. In short, everything is supposedly done using DSPs, and there is not much spare room in them. From the FAQ that Yamaha has put up on its UK web site: Q. What is the maximum polyphony of the EX instruments? The EX5 and EX5R AWM tone generator sections have a maximum polyphony of 126 notes, plus the output from the VL, AN, and FDSP tone generator sections. The maximum polyphony of the EX7 is 64 notes from the AWM tone generator stage plus the output from the AN and FDSP tone generator stages.
The actual polyphony, however, will depend on the tone generator stages used simultaneously, the number of elements used in voices, and effect settings. The number of notes available decreases in proportion to the number and type of elements used. For example, if an EX5 or EX5R voice uses two AWM elements, the maximum polyphony is 64 (in the same situation on the EX7, maximum polyphony would be 32).
Voice type EX5/5R Polyphony EX7 Polyphony AWM/Drum. 126 64 VL+AWM 1+AWM - FDSP 16 8 AN(Poly)+AWM 2+AWM 1+AWM AN(Layer)+AWM 1+AWM - AN+FDSP AN:1; FDSP:8 -. Please note that the actual polyphony may be reduced under certain conditions (end of quote - with apologies to Yamaha for any transcription errors) So it does appear that we should not exepect any miracles here. I've yet to hear what FDSP can do, but as I already own a VL-1m and an S+S synth (O1W/R), I am starting to think I may be better off investing in (say) an AN1x plus an A3000 to cover analogue-emulation and sampling (one day, that is;-), at roughly equivalent cost.
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Richard - Richard Rogers IT Services Staffordshire University For my e-mail address, please refer to (sorry, it's the only way to keep the spammers at bay) Matt G 17.04.98 00:00. I personally was very excited about the EX5. The key word: WAS! After viewing the manual from Yamaha's site, I was brought to reality. It apparently uses all it's brainpower to emulate analog synthesis, yielding 1 or 2 voices of polyphony!!
Not only that, I was hoping that the EX5 included an A3000 under the hood. Wrong Again!! The online FAQ clearly states that files between the A3000 & EX5 are not compatable! Yamaha states that they're basically two different animals. The EX5 being a Very basic sampler.
Tony Satoru Fukushima 20.04.98 00:00. Don't you just hate that!!! After all these hype about this EX-5 by Yamaha and Future Music (with 95% rating), we all thought EX-5 to be all that!
Wrong again.:( Most of us thought at first that with 128 Poly, we can have VL, AN, A3000 compatible recording/playback, and AWM going at the same time! Since that was not going to be, Yamaha has not really 'revolutionized' it, just made it look 'revolutionized' it for market-appeal! I say Yamaha should release the polyphonic version of VL synth (okay VP-1 was 16 bit poly but it cost $35 grand) for less than $2,000!! Now that is a real deal!
Tony Estrada wrote in message. Wombstatevector 22.04.98 00:00. Jeez!/ you people are impossible!/ i just can't figure out your attitude towards this machine- especially the sampling part/ have you read the on-line manual? The EX's sampling engine lacks only two primary features that the A3K posesses/: -time stretch/ crossfade/ pitch shift non real-time DSPs (i think- it may have them and i did't see it)/ but. In article, 'wombstatevector' wrote: i just can't figure out your attitude towards this machine- especially the sampling part/ have you read the on-line manual? I haven't, but I cannot understand this criticism either. I have not seen a sample-based synth with so many options for so little money.
And then they throw in a bag of mouth-watering goodies as well! The most rational explanation is that Yamaha made a mistake in their PR. When you suggest that this machine will do all, a fraction of the people will be disappointed. And you have been hearing them, I think. Well, I am going to give this machine a very, very serious consideration.time stretch/ crossfade/ pitch shift non real-time DSPs (i think- it may have them and i did't see it)/ but. The insert processors offer these processes (minus crossfade i guess) in REAL-TIME and the resampling is very quick and easy- so you could time-stretch faster- and with more control anyway And you can do them on your computer anyway.
sys.disconnect/:set AI:q ^X^C ^G ^Z kill -9%1 Theo Hyeong-Min Kim 24.04.98 00:00. Theo Vosse wrote: In article, 'wombstatevector' wrote: i just can't figure out your attitude towards this machine- especially the sampling part/ have you read the on-line manual? I haven't, but I cannot understand this criticism either. I have not seen a sample-based synth with so many options for so little money.
And then they throw in a bag of mouth-watering goodies as well! I cannot understand some people's criticism, either.
True, the EX5 is not perfect (what is perfect, anyway?), but it is way above its competition. Even if the EX5 were a straight sample playback synth w/ 128 voice polyphony, I would still be impressed. Btw, the EX5 looks real cool. Jon 25.04.98 00:00.
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